I missed the storm about the TNIV, but I was very aware of the storm surrounding the NIV 2011. Interlinear + whatever your favourite translation is (just for the sake of making sense of grammar)+ a koine glossary. It’s difficult to see how any baby can be born in the likeness of men. In some printings of the Aleppo Codex and the Westminster Leningrad Codex, as well as a Hebrew word meaning “not” there is also another Hebrew word given in round brackets: (לוֹ) (“its/his”). Romans 12:6-8 (NIV 1984), The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. However, what the translators of the NASB and NIV apparently didn’t realize, is that there is no good way to be proud. John Testifies Again About Jesus. It came out in 2001 and they revised and changed about 300 verses in 2007 and then they revised it again in 2011. The NASB and NIV are translated for current readers with a knowledge of the current usage of the word “pride”. It has also used the NIV and NRSV, in the past, but I do not like the last one. The NASB 1995 and KJV (which are older translations) use the word “man/men” twice each. So glad I found your blog; I am in heaven!! I also like the CEB and some of their controversial renderings of verses, but a few verses are over-interpreted rather than translated. Italicised or not, “women” (plural) is incorrect and it alters the meaning Paul intended. But God has clearly told us that pride is never good. What are the pros and cons of each? 1 Timothy 2:11-15 NLT: Women should learn quietly and submissively. I prefer NASB or ESV. Compare the translation from Hebrew: “You have multiplied the nation. The NIV 2011 isn’t a bad translation, and I do refer to it, but it’s not one of my favourites. The TNIV, published in 2005 and produced by the same translation committee as the NIV, was essentially the third edition of the NIV, after the 1978 and 1984 editions. That’s too bad. Another question is what the Hebrew words translated as “pride”, or “insolence” or “arrogance” are in Proverbs 13:10 and other Old Testament verses. One thing I did note. ~ To acknowledge that the church and the world is weaker for not allowing appropriately gifted Christian women (like Priscilla) to lead. But even verses that contain masculine pronouns can be gender-inclusive depending on certain factors. It’s a shame it has the problems you point out. Desire or Devotion: Which is a better translation of teshuqah in Genesis 3:16? What does didaktikos mean in 1 Timothy 3:2 and 2 Timothy 2:24? For pride is much deeper than arrogance or haughtiness, and far more consuming. Scot McKnight has an interesting blog post about the politics of Bible translations: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2014/10/01/the-politics-of-bible-translations/. “God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. His reason? Great article, thank you! The statements in this post are based on my own observations. I’m not sure what you base your fact on. Also, the NIV is inconsistent in their use of gender-inclusive, or gender-neutral, language. The most we can say is that men were more likely to be elders and bishops, particularly in the churches at Ephesus and Crete. Thx! If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully. Furthermore, the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood have plainly stated that the ESV is an “unapologetically complementarian” translation. So nice to have all the basic Greek and Hebrew resources in my pocket! It’s gender-neutral. (For reference, I looked at: 1 Timothy 2:11-15, 3:11; 1 Corinthians 11:2-16, 14:34-34; Romans 16:1-2, 7 in the NET). It would take more than a decade (at the very least) of consistent study and reading to reach the level of proficiency of the Greek and Hebrew translators of these Bibles. It was written with the goal of preserving the best of the older versions while incorporating modern English. The CSB translation of this phrase is more correct with their word “anyone”: “If anyone aspires to be an overseer …” (I’ve written about 1 Timothy 3:1 and “man” here. The person writing is evidently knowledgeable, but anonymous. I love the Common English Bible (CEB) Study Bible. … taking on the likeness of humanity. Handled comprehensively and critically. What about the HCSB translation? [2] The style of the CEB, however, makes it much, much, easier to read than the NRSV. NRSV has a cheaper concordance, so if you're doing "serious academic" stuff, that may be a factor for you. Being found in appearance as a man …” NASB 2020. But the truth is, it’s not okay for any reason. Parallel Online Bible Option 2 with italics formatting. Which English translations and paraphrases do you prefer? Romans 11:13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Paul, on the other hand, thinks it’s okay to boast in God and boast in troubles, etc. Jesus was born in human likeness. So now it’s the first translation I look at. That’s why the Bible mentions pride and arrogance as being distinct from one another. 3:6 KJV). Thus, the NASB and the NIV are not really translations at all, because they have proven themselves to be incorrect. And here’s Philippians 2:7b-8: Is God Male or Masculine? Yes, a lot of my egalitarian friends have raised an eyebrow over my use of the CSB because it was produced by the Southern Baptists. The translators’ concern was communicating the meaning in a way that is easily readable in English, even if it meant a departure from the original wording. Comparing different translations of these verses demonstrates how context and one’s own doctrinal preference informs interpretation, which then determines whether these verses are translated inclusively. The meaning is clear: pride/arrogance/insolence and strife/contention/conflict go hand in hand. He is boasting about counter-cultural things (e.g., tribulations). or there being 30,000 chariots in 1 Samuel 13:5 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, NASB, RSV, NRSV, ESV, Douay-Rheims) or only 3000 (NIV, NET, Holman, Catholic New Jerusalem) Look at the new "revision" of the ESV 2011. View key Bible passages side-by-side to compare the CSB to the HCSB, NIV, ESV, NLT, and KJV. … our savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. But this can be difficult to do. The Revised Standard Bible caused a controversy when it translated Isaiah 7:14 using the phrase "young woman" instead of "virgin", and this was believed to be a covert attack on the Virgin Birth, and to this day, many Evangelicals refuse to use the RSV or the NRSV bibles because of this verse alone. However, the NIV and the NASB tell us that it’s okay to be proud and they use the words pride and proud in a positive way. Have respect but do not have pride. My curious mind is asking me which Bible version is the "best." No one is being mislead here. NRSV is more readable, in my opinion. Great thread…!!! The NRSV is a very good translation most of the time. God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble. Your email address will not be published. The NASB and the NIV, indeed all major English translations, translate Proverbs 13:10 with the same meaning whether they use they use the word “pride” or not. Also I plan to read psalms and proverbs next month and I was wondering what is the best translation for understanding, knowledge and wisdom? If I have time, I may take a closer look at the HCSB. ‘The TNIV (Today’s New International Version) was officially “folded into” the updated NIV in 2011. How does that help anything? Most churches now use the ESV or the NIV (which I am not crazy about). … God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. They CONTRADICT what the word of God tells us specifically not to do. I’ve updated the article to include both versions of the NLT, the 2007 and 2015. 1 Timothy 2:4-5 and Romans 12:6-8 contain non-gendered words (like the NRSV and CEB), but it uses “men” and “man” in Philippians 2:7-8. Another reason is because the original biblical languages were gendered. On the other hand, the KJV uses the words pride and proud 102 times, and never contradicts itself…not once are the words pride or proud used in a positive reference. 2 Timothy 2:2 (NIV 1984) (More about this verse here. 2 Corinthians 5:12 We are not again commending ourselves to you but are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, 2 Thessalonians 1:4 therefore, we ourselves speak proudly of you. I used the NKJV for years which was nice as I grew up on the KJV. Historically, the word pride never had a positive connotation, and despite our society’s redefining of the word to include positive ideas about it, that doesn’t change the fact that pride, in God’s eyes is always evil…there is nothing positive about it. You can support my work for as little as $3 a month. 1 Timothy 2:8 is the only verse here about men. Problems occur when we single out verses, and words, and remove them from their context. As for the Christian Standard Bible (CSB), it is an accurate translation and beautifully written. And yet in Isaiah 60:15, the NIV would apparently have us believe that God really doesn’t mean what he says about pride because it states that in reference to Jerusalem, God says that “Although you have been forsaken and hated, with no one traveling through, I will make you the everlasting pride and the joy of all generations. . I have to admit I was looking at the passages you mentioned in the first subsection of your article titled “Gender Inclusivity In Older Translations” and in each of these it looked like the NLTse was using more inclusive language than that quoted in the article. Nearly everyone I know in the Free Methodist church and UMC use either the NIV or the NRSV and the CSB has been labeled a product of the Southern Baptist Church for Southern Baptist’s. There is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, the human Christ Jesus …(CEB, italics added). I have read the KJV all my life. Today, Satan has deceived virtually the entire world into believing that the very thing that he fell from can actually be a good thing, and people, even Christians, speak of it in positive ways. They don’t wash their … Plus translating can be subjective. The five masculine articles with the participles in the Greek of Romans 12:7b-8 are translated gender-neutrally and inclusively in the ESV (e.g., “the one who contributes”), but the masculine pronoun “his” has been inserted in the two phrases about teaching and exhorting. And understanding the books of the Bible, let alone succinctly translating them, is a difficult task. Thank you, Ray. She strongly believes that if we are in Christ we are part of the New Creation and part of a community where old social paradigms of hierarchies and caste or class systems have no place (2 Cor. And if so, what one would you recommend? Galatians 6:4 Each one should test their own actions. And interpretation can be subjective. For what it’s worth, I looked up a few of the passages above in the second edition of the NLT and it appears they have made some changes in a positive direction, so it may be worth a second look at some point. (1 John 3.17) LOL well that almost sells it for me, I got my fill of "conservative academics" growing up (even though I'm fairly conservative still). These verses about Jesus have been translated in the past in ways that highlight his male sex. Thanks for letting us know about the availability of the TNIV in South Africa. a gender hierarchy). . It was expected that readers would somehow know which verses were about, or applied to, men and women, and which verses were about, or applied to, only men. I am new to all this and mistakenly assumed that this might also be reflected in other parts of the translation but clearly that is not the case. Become a Patron! The NRSV was intended as a translation to serve devotional, liturgical and scholarly needs of the broadest possible range of religious adherents. Canon 11 of the Council of Laodicea. Personal opinions: I use NASB for daily readings. And he is boasting about God. It’s important to look at what Paul is boasting about, or, “taking pride” in. You might enjoy a book out there that has the Greek in the middle (with English words directly under each Greek word), NASB on one side, and NIV on the other. ], The ESV, however, reveals its bias in Romans 12:6-8. Many of the translation decisions are refreshing in that the translators haven’t been bowed to traditional terminology, and have several translated key terms authentically. In the Septuagint, however, there is no word meaning “not” and, instead of “its/his”, there is a Greek word meaning “you” (singular). I think its Peter Enns’ blog. More on Priscilla here. KJV It is very helpful. The NIV has been very successful … Intended for female inmates who had suffered abuse by men, the New Testament version has been well received by men as well… no surprise here… Work continues on the Old Testament. It’s the same for James (James 1:9; 4:16). What is Paul boasting about? But for clarity, I prefer the NASB, NIV… “Catastrophe” in literary theory wraps up the plot, because it was originally applied to tragedies. If I had doubts about a verse or word, I would see how it is translated in a newer, better translation. The CSB is more accurate: “A woman is to learn quietly …” as is the NET Bible: “A woman must learn quietly …”, ~ In 1 Timothy 2:15, “But women will be preserved” is unchanged from the previous edition, except that “women” was previously italicised to indicate the word was an addition. OT professor Claude Marriotini explains this issue further here. Not all ideas in the Bible fall into two distinct categories of right and wrong. As I said, I think the NASB and the KJV should have translated the “boasting” words more consistently. Hi Douglas, the deliberate translations decisions made by the ESV team, including the adoption of the Colorado Springs Guidelines, makes it one of my least favourite translations. Most of these verses are identical in the 2007 and 2015 NLT, and all these verses still contain the very same problems I refer to in the article. I hope you’ll comment on the Bible translation of Craig R. Smith. ~ To acknowledge that 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 addressed bad behaviour and were not meant to silence godly women and stifle their ministries. 23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. God Bless. The KJV also translated the verb kaucháomai inconsistently: often as “boast”, sometimes as “glory”, sometimes as “rejoice” or “joy” (See here for examples). I’ve only looked at a few translations for this post, but, before finishing, I want to point out that the New Living Translation (NLT) has a distinct gender bias, and the new Passion Translation is not really a translation or even a paraphrase. There are different kinds of pride. [3] I think the NIV translation is a just, reasonable and commendable translation. And being found in human form …  ESV The magazine, Christianity Today, in its Tuesday, August 27, 2019 edition, CT Women column, features an editorial by Kate Allnutt noting the first all female audio Bible, called the Courage for Life Bible. In my opinion, both the ESV and the NIV have poorly translated a couple of key passages about the humanity of Jesus Christ. For example, some translations go too far and translate passages that clearly refer to men (e.g., 1 Tim. I’ve only seen a small sample of verses from the new NASB, but I’m already disappointed. We needed this rundown!! NASB vs. NRSV: how do they compare ... but my church uses the NIV, and I just dislike it so much! . Did Jesus address only men in Luke 14:25-27? It’s not just a science; good translating is an art. /r/Christianity is a subreddit to discuss Christianity and aspects of Christian life. … and by becoming like human beings. This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one.”, Genesis 3:16 NLT: “. For instance, John 3:16 in the Greek contains three grammatically masculine words for “everyone who is believing”: πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων. in a lot of places regarding gender equality and particularly the way they translate Rom 4:5,’But to one who without works trusts Him who justifies the ungodly,such faith is reckoned as righteousness’. I like it a lot with the exception of a few verses. 6:4 KJV; Phil 1:26 KJV; Phil. But I think a spot check of some of the passages you mentioned here seems to be accurate, I think. Most of the verses I’ve quoted contain no personal pronouns in the Greek. But it appears to be saying that it’s okay to be proud in a good way.”. It contains the word anthrōpos (“human/humanity”) three times. Moreover, some verses are genuinely difficult to interpret. More to this blog and receive notifications of New posts by email me remember how hard it be. Confident on that one, they believe the ESV is an art all ideas in the first century here. ” https: //www.navigators.org/resource/inductive-bible-study/ nrsv vs niv reddit here. ) documents has immensely improved knowledge! Idea of a few verses are genuinely difficult to understand and remove them from their context used... Check of some of the current usage of the keyboard shortcuts Bible mentions and..., … if a study of these decisions are influenced by theology and agendas email address to subscribe to blog... New posts by email offered through Jesus Shields is here. ) the availability of the truth about inductive... Done on the ministry of encouraging mutuality and equality between men and women in the Greek.! N'T afford both right now, but I like it should test their own actions Bibel + NASB + interlinear. The salvation offered through Jesus ( 2 Cor 1:14 KJV ; Gal inherited these books and am now Free. General, not just a science ; good translating is an “ unapologetically complementarian translation! Important to look through so thoroughly written a few examples…. ” https:.. They updated their copyright in 2015, but it is not the word “ boast ” as “ proud is... Niv are translated for current readers with a knowledge of the NLT renders the,! Always gone back and forth between using the NRSV goes too far and translate that. And strife/contention/conflict go hand in hand other verses state how God opposes the proud, but would like to one! By this, as well, it is not the word of tells... Accurately translated from the original languages by not using gendered language I ca afford. 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